Score:1

How to find the extractor in the Knowledge-of-Exponent Assumption?

et flag

From Mihir Bellare's paper

Let $q$ be a prime such that $2q +1$ is also prime, and let $g$ be a generator of the order $q$ subgroup of ${Z^∗}_{2q+1}$. Suppose we are given input $q$, $g$, $g^a$ and want to output a pair $(C, Y)$ such that $Y = C^a$. One way to do this is to pick some $c \in Z_q$, let $C = g^c$, and let $Y = (g^a)^c$. Intuitively, KEA1 can be viewed as saying that this is the "only" way to produce such a pair. The assumption captures this by saying that any adversary outputting such a pair must "know" an exponent $c$ such that $g^c = C$. The formalization asks that there be an "extractor" that can return $c$.

I understand up how to find a pair $(C, Y)$ such that $Y = C^a$ by choosing any $c \in Z_q$

However, I am confused about what "extractor" means here. Does it mean given the pair $(C, Y)$ one has to find the $c$ which was used to calculate the $C$? If yes, how do we find the $c$ given just $(C, Y)$?

Or does it mean something else?

et flag
@kelalaka - so you are saying once $(C, Y)$ is handed off to the 2nd party, for the 2nd party, finding $c$ is as hard as the DLOG problem & that is the "KEA Assumption"?
kelalaka avatar
in flag
It is quite clear that it is for any Adversary, For proof see the papers. KEA2 is falsified there.
et flag
@kelalaka - not looking for proof - just wanting to clarify if I have understood the assumption correctly
kelalaka avatar
in flag
KEA1: For any adversary $A$ that takes input $q, g, g^a$ and returns $(C, Y )$ with $Y = C^a$ there exists an “extractor” $\bar{A}$ , which given the same inputs as $A$ returns $c$ such that $g^c = C$. I.e. such $\bar{A}$ is called extractor.
et flag
@kelalaka - I think I am confused by the language of that statement. Doesn't the statement " there exists an extractor $\bar{A}$" mean that that DLOG problem can be solved by the extractor $\bar{A}$. So what exactly is that supposed to show here? Isn't whether the extractor can be trivially calculated more relevant here. I am unable to understand what this assumption means/shows
sa flag
The extractor also get's $A$'s random tape. That explains why it is not computing discrete logarithms. If you want to understand the idea behind knowledge-of-exponent assumptions, prove them in the generic group model.
Score:3
gb flag

The idea of an "extractor" is common when speaking of "knowledge" in cryptography. This is because it is difficult to formally define what it means to "know" something. So we define it to mean that if someone can create a valid proof of knowledge, we could somehow "look inside" that process and extract the knowledge.

In this specific case, we have a black box machine that takes as input $q, g, g^a$, and will output $(C, Y)$ such that $Y = C^a$. The claim is that this black box must "know" the exponent $c$ (where $g^c = C$). And in formal terms, that means that if we have access to this black box, we should be able to extract $c$ out of it (with non-negligible probability).

However, it is just an assumption (and a non-falsifiable one at that), so it could potentially turn out to be wrong.

Score:1
in flag

If we look at the references paper 11, all will be more clear and this is how we read papers; by looking at references.

Abbreviations

  • DHA : Diffie-Hellman assumption
  • SDHA-1: Strong Diffie-Hellman Assumption -1

Assumptions 8 is about what KEA1 talks about; (SDHA-1). With proposition 9 it is shown that under SDHA-1, DHA holds ( SDHA-1 $\implies$ DHA). KEA-1 is a restatement of this proposition;

KEA1: For any adversary $A$ that takes input $q, g, g^a$ and returns $(C, Y )$ with $Y = C^a$ there exists an “extractor” $\bar{A}$ , which given the same inputs as $A$ returns $c$ such that $g^c = C$. I.e. such $\bar{A}$ is called extractor.

I.e words, if adversary $A$ solves SDHA-1 then $\bar{A}$ ( called extractor) can solve the DHA.

sa flag
Something's missing in your KEA1 definition: the extractor needs the random tape of the adversary, otherwise you can turn the extractor into a discrete logarithm solver.
kelalaka avatar
in flag
@K.G.are you saying that Mihir's short definition is not correct? The KEA1 exactly from the paper.
sa flag
The original papers work with families of deterministic algorithms. For some reason. Unless you keep the context of deterministic algorithms, KEA1 is false as quoted, at least under my intuitive understanding. This may be the source of the misunderstanding in the original question.
kelalaka avatar
in flag
@K.G. the paper falsifies KEA2 not KEA1.
sa flag
It seems I am unable to explain things so you understand. Do you understand the difference between the extractor working for a deterministic algorithm, and the extractor working for a probabilistic algorithm?
kelalaka avatar
in flag
@K.G. I'll be happy to hear an answer from you instead of this one.
sa flag
I was trying to help you improve your answer, but failed miserably. Apologies.
kelalaka avatar
in flag
@K.G. I'm not claiming that I'm correct. I'm here to learn the truth. What I understand from you is that Mihir's definition is missing the details, so where can I find those? Any references to look?
sa flag
It seems we have trouble communicating. For the record: Bellare's KEA papers are correct. Please do not claim I say anything else.
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